Did you know it is illegal...

[DaveBuck]

Whether the fees should be dispersed to everyone or charged straight to credit card users is absolutely irrelevant to the point of this thread. The business owners sign a contract stating that they will and will not do certain things with regards to accepting credit cards. One of the things they agree to is that they will not set a minimum order nor charge a surcharge for credit card purchases.

If they don't like the contract they can most certainly take it up with the credit card companies, but they can't arbitrarily decide they don't like the terms and ignore them.

You are absolutely right.

I'm just arguing that it is an unfortunate and unfair practice. It's within their rights though and I'm not arguing for some law to change this.

My only recourse is to write to the card companies or try to frequent places that give discounts for cash, even though I use credit cards.

[LarryD]

what the hell is wrong with charging a minimum? It's you who choses to use a fucking credit card.

The vendor is under contract with the credit provider. They are breaching the terms of the contract to the consumer's detriment. I contract with the credit card company because of the benefits it provides. Therefore, it's proper for me to rat out a vendor who is not honoring the contract.

My credit card took my whole family to Seattle from the midwest for $100... is it any wonder I put 99% of my spending on it and pay it off every month?

Who pissed in your corn flakes anyway? Why so hostile?

LarryD

[mrsmaintenance]

LarryD, you rock. You get the point, man!!!

[smartymarty66]

Why do people assume there is no cost with cash handling? there is the cost of counting, handling and banking the cash, as well as insurance against theft.. This cost is met by the business and factored into the prices they charge, I would like to see the figures but I feel that this costs more than the transaction fees charged for the use of credit cards, yet this is ignored by many businesses. My mother owned and ran a takeaway and found that a lot more people used the takeaway due to the convenience of having eftpos available and that alone was worth the increased costs. She also found that it improved her cashflow and saved her time.

[The Monkey]

eftpos....not heard that for ages...ahhhhhh the memories...actually I still have an account with the commonwealth bank. I'll keep it till I emigrate.

[Hetaera]

Thanks for the heads up MrsM!

I always thought it was a little shady that they did it, but thought it was within their rights.

It seems like every foreign owned carry out around here does it...

[mrsmaintenance]

Thanks for the heads up MrsM!

I always thought it was a little shady that they did it, but thought it was within their rights.

It seems like every foreign owned carry out around here does it...

It does seem to be mostly the foreign-owned ones, doesn't it? The gas station that denied food to my child were these smug-looking jerks from India or Pakistan. Not that it's important...just an observation. The stupid smirk on that guy's face made me want to punch him. When I told him it was illegal, his rebuttal was, "Well we charge cops that minimum too!" Like the cops know about laws like that.

[Hetaera]

Thanks for the heads up MrsM!

I always thought it was a little shady that they did it, but thought it was within their rights.

It seems like every foreign owned carry out around here does it...

It does seem to be mostly the foreign-owned ones, doesn't it? The gas station that denied food to my child were these smug-looking jerks from India or Pakistan. Not that it's important...just an observation.

OMG! We're so racist for noticing race!!!
Repent.

[unspecified42]

^^ Haha, it's all the craft show folks that I see with minimums charge requirements. They're all white and American-born...

[mrsmaintenance]

I've never seen a craft show that takes credit cards! All the ones I've been to, it's cash only...but they have ATMs conveniently located there so you can pull cash.

[mrsmaintenance]

Just reported the DAV thrift store for this today! I have that violation form bookmarked...lol. It's not like DAV is some mom and pop operation...their CEO clears over 200K a year.

The consumer-rights-vigilante strikes again. It will only be a matter of time until DAV removes their signs that state $5.00 minimum.

[nonameisgood]

The word we favored as a kid was "NARC".

I'm all for having people follow their contracts, but two things:
1) the contracts are what they are, and as a merchant, you can either (a) accept the deal, or (b) lose significant business from people who can't / don't / won't pay cash.
2) why can't a business owner decide how he will run his business, without having people like you tattling on his business practice?

The net effect of the gas station not taking a credit card is loss of the business - either way, you can't buy "food" for you kid.

While on the subject of following the rules, how would you feel about someone reporting you for dumpster diving (a form of unlawful trespass in most places)?

[mrsmaintenance]

Diving is legal here, first of all...

Secondly, if a card is the only way that you have to pay, you should be allowed to use it, no matter the amount. Why should a business be allowed to screw people?

You'd rather see a person get stiffed for the amount of their surcharge or minimum amount, than see a business lose money. That's fucking sad.

[Recovering Catholic]

The business looses money either way.
1. people who want to pay via credit will take their business elsewhere;
2. if the business accepts credit while absorbing the per use fee from the credit company, they lose money per transaction.

So, I agree that business owners should be free to make a choice between numbers 1 and 2. If forced to accept credit cards regardless of the consequence of #2, they should be free to roll the charge into the cost of the item. So, if a gallon of milk costs $3 cash, it could cost $3.50 credit. Interestingly, this is the way many florists figure their prices. Try buying roses with credit, and then ask for the cash and carry price.

[mrsmaintenance]

I don't think it's wrong to give a cash discount, if that's what they want to do...that's quite a bit different than tacking on a surcharge just because they don't like your method of payment.

I just don't get why some of you are so sympathetic to business over people.

[Recovering Catholic]

I don't think it's wrong to give a cash discount, if that's what they want to do...that's quite a bit different than tacking on a surcharge just because they don't like your method of payment.

I just don't get why some of you are so sympathetic to business over people.

It's not sympathy. It's logic. The business exists to make a profit. Costs of coupons are redirected to customers... eventually, so are credit card surcharges. Is it fair to me to pay higher prices to cover the cost of a person using credit?

[mrsmaintenance]

Really, I think it all evens out...they figure in ALL their costs when they set the prices for items. I don't report the business unless they give me crap about it. They get a warning from me that their minimum/surcharge is illegal. If they still try to force me to pay it, then I'll report them.

It's my right as a consumer to pay with any method that they'll accept. They say they'll accept credit cards, which is profitable to them to do so and makes good business sense. People get so bent out of shape when Ebay sellers try to recoup their ebay fees in their shipping costs or whatever, but they don't think twice when a brick-and-mortar business tries to screw them.

Mr. M's got direct deposit. I could pay with my credit card, or pay an ATM fee every time I wanted to draw cash to pay for something small. When it comes to me paying a fee, or the business that's richer than me, well, guess who loses. They're still making a profit so they need to stfu.

[Recovering Catholic]

Everyone makes profits. Why is the business evil for maximizing theirs? Does Mr. M break even in his employment? No - he gets money direct deopsited because he sold his labor for a profitable amount and gets to bank that money, even saving the surplus for future needs. I don't see businesses as any different. When I apply for jobs, I know exactly what my labor is worth, and what I need to earn to profit after expenses associated with working (commute, attire, child care, etc.) I would do exactly the same thing if I were a retailer - factor in all associated costs and charge them accordingly. If I have an attendant pump my gas (which I have never done) then I pay a surcharge on my gasoline to cover the cost of the person doing the pumping. He's there anyway, getting paid the same minimum wage whether or not he gets off his butt to pump my gasoline, but I still pay more for his service. Credit usage is a service. If you don't want to pay the fees, get a debit card.

[mrsmaintenance]

They charge the same for debit cards. It doesn't matter if you run it as credit or debit. They'll still charge you for it.

What if I were to go to the grocery store and buy a bunch of dry goods? Is it fair to me that the store factors in the cost of running freezers and refrigerators on the dry goods, too?

Their fees can all be written off as business expenses, anyhow. Which is worse: YOU losing $3.00 at the ATM, or the STORE losing $0.25 at the credit card machine? Anyone who thinks that they should lose money to benefit a store is an idiot. JMO.

[AsGoodAs]

Cheese! If the businesses don't like the contract with the credit card companies, can't they, like, move to a different country or something? It must really suck to be a poor business that doesn't have any choices. . . . I'm glad that I'm a powerful consumer that can always go to a different store!

For my part I'm with you MrsM. I'll take care of myself and hope that the businesses have enough sense to be able to know what they need to charge to make a profit.

I routinely buy groceries in my local store, which is much more expensive than it is in Madison. But, the local store hires a lot of kids in my community that need jobs, and they accept my credit card. . . . They never seem to be hurting for business, so I'm going to assume that there are a lot of other folks like me that are willing to pay for the convenience that they provide.

AsGoodAs

[jennibeeme]

What exactly is Visa and MC charging the businesses the fee for? So do they get 25 or 50 cents everytime a checkcard is ran anywhere? WOW! Or just at gas stations? Thats the only place I have seen the 5 dollar minimum. I dont see how they can charge them if you run it as debit though. I think they are still just trying to get in that 5 dollars.

[Recovering Catholic]

Banks and credit card companies charge a small fee for every single transaction. Usually, people purchase enough to offset the fee. That's why most places have a minimum charge requirement. A company looses money if they allow someone to charge less than a dollar, for example.

The actual culprit in this situation is the bank, who charges a $3 fee for using an ATM. Save your money by actually walking into the bank, withdrawing the money, and paying cash for your purchases. Or, use a credit union - ours gives us free WD's from other credit union ATMs.

[mrsmaintenance]

I'm thinking of doing this to hurt Wal-Mart and other large exploitative companies...I think I'll go in (with a bunch of other people) and buy a 30c pack of gum and put it on my Visa. Whoops, there goes their profit! Imagine if everyone did that! Down with Mall Wart!

[Looksbothways]

I still don't understand people that are defending the companies for violating a legally binding contract they willingly entered into. They are not in any way forced to accept credit cards.

The fact that they choose to accept them means the benefits outweigh the cost. Anyone in the sales end of business will tell you that sometimes you take a loss on an individual sale to benefit in another area. We have several accounts that we sell Belt A to at a loss because we know they also order Belt B at a higher markup, or we sell Belt A at a loss in order to give the customer an incentive to use it and see how awesome it is, then we raise the price to profitable status later. In this case, the stores take a slight loss on small transactions in order to benefit from higher sales overall from credit card users. If the overall result weren't beneficial, they wouldn't accept credit cards in the first place.

Stores are free to negotiate the terms of their contracts prior to entering into them. The fact that they chose to enter into the contract means they chose to abide by the contract, and associated fees and restrictions. I will not tolerate the store punishing me for their inability or unwillingness to negotiate a better contract.

[mrsmaintenance]

Exactly what Looksbothways said.